Someone please inform the Bush administration that their business partners hate us and want us dead.
From MC's link:"The texts assert that it's "permissible" for a Muslim to kill an "apostate," an "adulterer," a "homosexual,""To quote MC: "Why are we so upset about this?" jah
You might also want to take a look at the religious right in this country -- you know the Jerry Fallwell types who say this country had 9/11 and Hurracane Katrina coming due to the debauchery we allow.
Okay, anonymous, I'll bite:How is claiming that God may be judging us for our actions the same as wanting a whole race of people to be dead?Falwell may be mistaken on these particular issues. However, if you believe the Bible, you must take it seriously when it claims that God judges nations. The Books of Kings and Chronicles make it clear that Kingdoms of Israel and Judah failed because they worshipped false gods and did not obey His commandments.Falwell is not a prophet. Fair enough. But can his conclusion, that we are being judged for worshipping false gods (i.e., mammon, child sacrifice) be dismissed out of hand?And if so, can it be simply labeled as hate? Did Jeremiah hate the Judeans when he kept warning that their sinfulness was going to bring a fateful judgment?If Falwell saw a problem that wasn't there, then his judgment could be impeached. But his good will as well?
Let me see if I understand your point, Lee. Professors are called anti-american by ordinary Christian commentators when they attack mainstream American values, but when guys like Jerry Falwell attack just as mainstream concepts the professors are anti-american while the fire-breathing pastors just love God? Double standard, don't you think?In related irony: most conservative Christians I know flipped out about Rev. Wright saying God damn America because of slavery, while the same conservative Christians have no problems with white pastors saying God will damn America for showing nudity in movies.
> ...but when guys like Jerry Falwell attack just as mainstream concepts the professors are anti-american while the fire-breathing pastors just love God? I think what I asked is, why is seeing something bad happen and concluding it must be a judgment sent by God the same thing as hating someone (or lots of someones) and *wanting* them dead?If you warn someone that their actions are injurious to their own health and welfare, how is that so bad?Or if you observe something bad happen to someone and speculate that it might be related to some bad things they were doing, how is that the same as wanting that someone dead?You don't have to be able to defend everything Falwell said or did, to notice that someone is trying to draw a moral equivalence between him and people who hate with such a vengeance they are willing to commit mass murder... and to object to it.As for Rev. Wright: I see a difference between warning of a possible coming judgment against one's country, and just coming out and cursing it with hateful rhetoric. In one case, it's a warning; in the other, it's actively calling down God's wrath. C'mon. Surely you see there is a difference there...?
lee: why is seeing something bad happen and concluding it must be a judgment sent by God ...If you warn someone that their actions are injurious to their own health and welfare ...Or if you observe something bad happen to someone and speculate that it might be related to some bad things they were doing ...1) In the case of Katrina, the judgment wasn't delivered to those presumably doing bad (depraved homosexuals in other parts of the city) but primarily to poor, ignorant, mostly religious people who happened (for social and economic reasons) to live in low-lying areas next to poorly designed and sloppily constructed flood control walls up-surge of once mitigating marshes and wetlands destroyed, to a large extent, by companies searching for oil and gas.How does that fit lee's conditions above?2) According to Falwell (from snopes below), a lot of groups are responsible for God sending Katrina as punishment. If he is correct, how does America avoid similar future catastrophes? The only conclusion I can draw (please add others if anyone has them) is God has to be put in the government, homosexuals converted to a straight lifestyle, ACLU muted, etc. Does he recommend this be done by law, force, or persuasion? I have no idea. But it seems to me that there will be at least discrimination against these groups if they are believed to have called down God's wrath on us.From snopes:Falwell: And, I know that I'll hear from them for this. But, throwing God out successfully with the help of the federal court system, throwing God out of the public square, out of the schools. The abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked. And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad. I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way - all of them who have tried to secularize America - I point the finger in their face and say "you helped this happen." PAT ROBERTSON: Well, I totally concur, and the problem is we have adopted that agenda at the highest levels of our government. And so we're responsible as a free society for what the top people do. And, the top people, of course, is the court system. jah
Why do the Saudis hate the West? Can anyone see why some might think Falwell and Al-Fawzan are cut from the same cloth?jahFrom worldnetdaily: WND WHEN THE EARTH MOVESHomosexuality, fornication cause of tsunami?Saudi professor says sinful acts at Christmastime caused disasterPosted: January 05, 20051:00 am Eastern© 2008 WorldNetDaily.comA Muslim Saudi professor says the earthquake and tsunami in south Asia were punishment from Allah for homosexuality and fornication committed by residents and visitors of affected countries at Christmastime.A television interview of Sheik Fawzan Al-Fawzan, a professor at the Al-Imam University, was translated and posted on the Internet by the Middle East Media Research Institute TV Monitor Project, or MEMRI TV. The interview can be viewed on MEMRI's website."These great tragedies and collective punishments that are wiping out villages, towns, cities and even entire countries, are Allah's punishments of the people of these countries, even if they are Muslims," stated Al-Fawzan. "Some of our forefathers said that if there is usury and fornication in a certain village, Allah permits its destruction."The professor singled out beach resorts as places of sexual sin."We know that at these resorts, which unfortunately exist in Islamic and other countries in south Asia, and especially at Christmas, fornication and sexual perversion of all kinds are rampant," he said. "The fact that it happened at this particular time is a sign from Allah. It happened at Christmas, when fornicators and corrupt people from all over the world come to commit fornication and sexual perversion. That's when this tragedy took place, striking them all and destroyed everything. It turned the land into wasteland, where only the cries of the ravens are heard. I say this is a great sign and punishment on which Muslims should reflect."Al-Fawzan urged Muslims to atone for their sin."All that's left for us to do is to ask for forgiveness We must atone for our sins and for the acts of the stupid people among us and improve our condition. We must fight fornication, homosexuality, usury, fight the corruption on the face of the earth, and the disregard of the lives of protected people."
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