Friday, May 11, 2012

Is Obama imposing his religion on Americans?

Obama invoked his Christianity as a reason to take the position he did on same-sex marriage, specifically citing the Golden Rule, and the liberal media cheered. I'm wondering what the response of the liberal media would have been if a conservative sitting president had cited his Christianity as his reason for opposing it.

Never mind. I don't have to wonder. I know exactly what they would say. He's imposing his religion on the American people.

Funny how that works

15 comments:

Anonymous said...

Martin, hands off my Golden Rule.

The Golden Rule predates Christianity and the concept appears in every religion on which I have read.

Every person that I respect, religious or otherwise, lives their life acknowledging the truth of the Golden Rule.

Treating others as we would like to be treated is not a religious imposition.

One Brow said...

Martin,

If same-sex marriage is approved, what, precisely, is the imposition on you? Is it greater than the imposition on a racial bigot where interracial marriages are legal?

Martin Cothran said...

One Brow,

I don't operate in a libertarian world where self-interest is the determining factor of good policy. I'm surprised you do.

Are you a Randian or something?

KyCobb said...

Martin,

You have a funny idea of what imposing your religious beliefs on someone is. Obama isn't trying to force anyone to marry a person of the same sex, nor is he attempting to prohibit anyone from marrying the person of their choice. He wants people to be able to make their own choice based on their own religious beliefs. Only you fundamentalists could believe that freedom of religion is an imposition on your religious beliefs.

Lee said...

> Only you fundamentalists could believe that freedom of religion is an imposition on your religious beliefs.

If you force me to approve of such relationships, that is an imposition of your beliefs on me.

Mind you, I don't believe in forcing them to have only the relationships I approve of.

I just don't want them forcing me to approve.

KyCobb said...

Lee,

Noone is going to force you to say you approve; that would violate your 1st amendment rights. Even racists aren't forced to say they approve of interracial marriage.

One Brow said...

Martin,

You were the one who pointed out that some one taking the opposite position would be acused of imposing their belief. Should I take your question as an acknwledgement that same-senx marriage imposes nothing on you? Or, are you just dodging that question?

Lee said...

> Noone is going to force you to say you approve; that would violate your 1st amendment rights

I am part of the body politic. If the body politic approves, then by extension, so do I. Social contract, and all that.

One Brow said...

I am part of the body politic. If the body politic approves, then by extension, so do I. Social contract, and all that.

So, you approve of gatherings of the Ku Klux Klan? I think you are using "approve" for "tolerate" or "accept as a necessary evil". Yes, you are expected to tolerate things you don't approve of. Social contract and all thaat.

KyCobb said...

Lee,

Then you agree that we need to amend the Constitution to ban miscegenation so that racists don't have to "approve" of multi-racial marriage. Don't we also need to ban all marriage so that a father doesn't have to approve of his daughter marrying that good-for-nothing bum? Your hubris is breathtaking. Who made you King so that the other people's lives are dictated by whether their decisions meet your approval?

Lee said...

> So, you approve of gatherings of the Ku Klux Klan?

The Klan doesn't require my approval or ask it. Marriage ceremonies do. They require a license from the state, and they ask whether anyone has an objection, "Speak now or forever hold your peace." In other words, a demand for approval -- exactly as I said.

> Then you agree that we need to amend the Constitution to ban miscegenation so that racists don't have to "approve" of multi-racial marriage.

As usual, if you can't argue against my position, KyCobb, you make up another position and become indignant that I'm supporting it. Even though I have to wait for you to tell me what position I'm now supporting. Hail, King of the Non Sequitur.

> Your hubris is breathtaking.

I thought there must be some reason why you lose your ability to articulate a reasonable argument whenever I'm around. Try using an inhaler.

> Who made you King so that the other people's lives are dictated by whether their decisions meet your approval?

I agree that gay marriage proponents should not want or require my approval. But don't complain to me. Complain to them. They're the ones demanding it.

One Brow said...

Lee said...
They require a license from the state,

Many states recognize common-law marriages, which do not have licenses.

and they ask whether anyone has an objection, "Speak now or forever hold your peace."

A tradition (and not a universal tradition), not a legal requirement.

Lee said...

> A tradition (and not a universal tradition), not a legal requirement.

The tradition is symbolic. Marriage is a relationship in which its participants request approval from society at large.

There is no such request for shacking up, and no such approval granted. Only tolerance is (implicitly) asked of us, not approval.

And that's where I stand personally. I'm willing to grant tolerance, but not approval.

As this is a political issue, it will be settled politically. As it is still largely unsettled, my political support is for granting public tolerance, not approval.

KyCobbs' breathless wheezing aside, I see nothing hubristic in my position.

KyCobb said...

Lee,

Enjoy your time in which you have the political muscle to impose your theology on other people, though why someone would want to in a free society escapes me. Like the racists of fifty years ago, you will lose it soon enough.

One Brow said...

The tradition is symbolic.

However, it is not legally necessary and not required. Marriages are recognized even when there is no request or consideration for societal approval.