tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post1351504576169162219..comments2024-03-28T15:39:28.239-04:00Comments on Vital Remnants: Has the Obama admininstration endorsed Big Love?Martin Cothranhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16452612266051351726noreply@blogger.comBlogger43125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-6570704270638751322011-03-03T07:20:02.767-05:002011-03-03T07:20:02.767-05:00Does DOMA permit black gay marriage?Does DOMA permit black gay marriage?Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12974887002402743628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-81845873905244224372011-03-02T08:09:35.034-05:002011-03-02T08:09:35.034-05:00Lee,
Apparently equal protection of the law, sinc...Lee,<br /><br />Apparently equal protection of the law, since DOMA discriminates against state sanctioned same-sex marriages.KyCobbnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-27540062884034313762011-03-01T19:43:59.606-05:002011-03-01T19:43:59.606-05:00What rights do black people in this country enjoy ...What rights do black people in this country enjoy that homosexuals do not?Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12974887002402743628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-33692302427087084132011-03-01T19:41:27.598-05:002011-03-01T19:41:27.598-05:00Lee,
"Regarding the Brown decision, I'm ...Lee,<br /><br />"Regarding the Brown decision, I'm pretty sure the framers of the 14th amendment had equal protection under the law for black people in mind when they wrote it."<br /><br />But it doesn't say it applies to black people but not homosexuals, does it?KyCobbnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-81083386822410808612011-03-01T17:05:58.423-05:002011-03-01T17:05:58.423-05:00If you want to change the Constitution, we have so...If you want to change the Constitution, we have something called an amendment process -- using it, you fix the prejudices of the past and can even pass your own 21st century societal prejudices down to our great-grandchildren. The beauty of this process is that not only can you make something that was pulled out of thin air into a Constitutional right, but you can do so in a manner that the Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12974887002402743628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-38729006892966018742011-03-01T15:27:08.671-05:002011-03-01T15:27:08.671-05:00Lee,
I think the Court should have the authority ...Lee,<br /><br />I think the Court should have the authority to invalidate unconstitutional state laws. If the Prop 8 case or something like it goes to the Court, it looks like Kennedy will make the decision. I won't lose any sleep over it one way or the other, though I think gays ought to be able to at least have civil unions.<br /><br />I take it that, since you think that the ConstitutionKyCobbnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-66515425208986165552011-03-01T13:00:28.947-05:002011-03-01T13:00:28.947-05:00So you are not exactly fine with the states decidi...So you are not exactly fine with the states deciding the issue, then, are you?<br /><br />You are fine with the states deciding to agree with you.<br /><br />The states are free to establish gay marriage, and the federal government is free to force them if they don't.Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12974887002402743628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-10518660652641673642011-03-01T12:34:33.275-05:002011-03-01T12:34:33.275-05:00Lee,
"But I have a question: you say you'...Lee,<br /><br />"But I have a question: you say you're for states rights. So then, if the U.S. Supreme Court overrules a states decision not to allow gay marriage, are you for that?"<br /><br />Farther up the thread, you were worried that the Administration was usurping the role of the Court in deciding constitutional issues, so do you support the Court making this decision or not?KyCobbnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-16286030700403402062011-03-01T08:39:46.537-05:002011-03-01T08:39:46.537-05:00> You may wish that gays didn't have the ri...> You may wish that gays didn't have the right to same-sex marriage, but whether you like it or not such marriages are now legal in several states. <br /><br />Is that the "might makes right" argument I hear stumbling over the furniture in the background?<br /><br />> You don't get to decide what is a real marriage and the Constitution does not define what is a real Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12974887002402743628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-32470858510285493852011-03-01T08:28:36.437-05:002011-03-01T08:28:36.437-05:00Lee,
You may wish that gays didn't have the r...Lee,<br /><br />You may wish that gays didn't have the right to same-sex marriage, but whether you like it or not such marriages are now legal in several states. You don't get to decide what is a real marriage and the Constitution does not define what is a real marriage, state laws define what a marriage is. The constitutional question is whether the federal government has legitimate KyCobbnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-78162074794966121612011-03-01T06:50:05.204-05:002011-03-01T06:50:05.204-05:00> There is no right to any kind of legally reco...> There is no right to any kind of legally recognized marriage in the Constitution, but there is a right to equal protection and substantive due process. <br /><br />As I said earlier, under the original definition of marriage, there is equal protection. This is not about equal protection. This is about changing age-old definitions and then pretending it results in unequal protection. <br />Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12974887002402743628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-79764891545799003032011-02-28T22:40:35.574-05:002011-02-28T22:40:35.574-05:00Lee,
"marriage and marriage "rights&quo...Lee,<br /><br />"marriage and marriage "rights" are unspecified in the Constitution."<br /><br />I think we actually agree on something. The federal government doesn't have to provide benefits or recognition to marriages at all. There is no right to any kind of legally recognized marriage in the Constitution, but there is a right to equal protection and substantive due KyCobbnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-17509394236559909772011-02-28T18:18:30.418-05:002011-02-28T18:18:30.418-05:00For the record, I do think that it is unconstituti...For the record, I do think that it is unconstitutional for Congress to pass such a law. But I don't think it is invalid because, buried in the emanations of penumbras, there is some Constitutional right to gay marriage. I think it is invalid because it is unconstitutional, period: marriage and marriage "rights" are unspecified in the Constitution.<br /><br />But "Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12974887002402743628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-46130164390928660912011-02-28T18:02:52.056-05:002011-02-28T18:02:52.056-05:00Lee,
I think you are confused about who is exerci...Lee,<br /><br />I think you are confused about who is exercising federal power and who isn't. DOMA is an unprecedented exercise of federal power in which the federal government is denying the validity of marriages authorized by state law. The administration is declining to defend this effort by the federal government to tell the states what their marriage laws should be.KyCobbnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-47586650536703156192011-02-28T17:42:11.644-05:002011-02-28T17:42:11.644-05:00> I imagine 19th century men never imagined som...> I imagine 19th century men never imagined some states would legalize same-sex marriage. <br /><br />So were they just bigots who saw the world through their religion-colored glasses?<br /><br />Or were they simply people who held to a definition of marriage that is now being contradicted and undermined?<br /><br />> Now they have and the question is whether the federal government can Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12974887002402743628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-19047690677987820072011-02-28T16:34:13.171-05:002011-02-28T16:34:13.171-05:00"Protecting the legitimate economic interests..."Protecting the legitimate economic interests of women is a perfectly acceptable secular basis for state regulation."<br /><br />We protect the interests of women out of a conviction of their moral worth. That's a moral belief.Thomas M. Cothranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07824873424225826685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-36349609175031828342011-02-28T13:13:27.662-05:002011-02-28T13:13:27.662-05:00Thomas,
The prejudice against homosexuality.
T...Thomas,<br /><br />The prejudice against homosexuality. <br /><br />Today, Marriage is a legal arrangement between two people recognized by a state which gives them certain rights and responsibilities relative to each other. Since each state has different laws, marriage confers a different bundle of rights and responsibilities in each state. Who may get married varies by state as well, with KyCobbnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-81114064167192960362011-02-28T12:06:30.584-05:002011-02-28T12:06:30.584-05:00KyCobb writes:
"Now they have and the questi...KyCobb writes:<br /><br />"Now they have and the question is whether the federal government can refuse to recognize some marriages solely due to religious prejudice."<br /><br />What religious prejudice is that? <br /><br />But in order to know that there is a prejudice in relation to marriage, we have to first know what marriage is? What is it, then?Thomas Aquinasnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-1161033577076115542011-02-28T11:51:29.321-05:002011-02-28T11:51:29.321-05:00Lee,
I imagine 19th century men never imagined so...Lee,<br /><br />I imagine 19th century men never imagined some states would legalize same-sex marriage. Now they have and the question is whether the federal government can refuse to recognize some marriages solely due to religious prejudice. Since the drafters of the Constitution and the Amendments never envisioned this scenario, we can only compare it to something they might have considered.KyCobbnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-40028853955963543542011-02-28T11:43:59.409-05:002011-02-28T11:43:59.409-05:00Lee,
I don't have a problem with separation o...Lee,<br /><br />I don't have a problem with separation of powers. Congress can step in and defend DOMA if it wants, in fact, I fully expect that the House will do so. In regards to Health Care Reform, I believe one Governor has already announced he won't implement, but many of the states which have sued to block it are also accepting federal money to implement it. Keep in mind several KyCobbnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-84978685498441480962011-02-28T11:34:17.778-05:002011-02-28T11:34:17.778-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Francis Beckwithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03765632359220115150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-24472521642910080332011-02-28T08:55:13.740-05:002011-02-28T08:55:13.740-05:00Apologies for my struggles with Blogger this morni...Apologies for my struggles with Blogger this morning.Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12974887002402743628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-54287287253089040602011-02-28T08:54:03.169-05:002011-02-28T08:54:03.169-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12974887002402743628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-83664356872513903042011-02-28T08:52:21.559-05:002011-02-28T08:52:21.559-05:00The Administration has decided not to defend DOMA ...The Administration has decided not to defend DOMA because they believe its unconstitutional, not because they don't "like" it.<br /><br />So we have a situation where the Administration decides what is unconstitutional. The law says one thing, the administration another... poof! The administration wins.<br /><br />Contrast that with the fact that a federal judge ruled Obamacare to Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12974887002402743628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-39726769249575494922011-02-28T08:52:09.370-05:002011-02-28T08:52:09.370-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12974887002402743628noreply@blogger.com