tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post3240626066285135436..comments2024-03-28T15:39:28.239-04:00Comments on Vital Remnants: Is the traditional lobe of the conservative brain becoming a vestigial political organ?Martin Cothranhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16452612266051351726noreply@blogger.comBlogger30125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-14457405613674536262012-10-01T15:16:51.942-04:002012-10-01T15:16:51.942-04:00> The moral principle you are referring to is J...> The moral principle you are referring to is J.S. Mill's harm principle. <br /><br />Mill is the original libertarian, is he not? I don't consider myself a libertarian. I agree in general with this particular construct, but maybe not for the same reasons he does -- the individual should not be mindlessly exalted, but the government should not be blindly trusted.<br /><br />Still, I Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12974887002402743628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-31799454094353967062012-10-01T14:45:56.755-04:002012-10-01T14:45:56.755-04:00Unfortunately, I think fewer liberals have read Ra...Unfortunately, I think fewer liberals have read Rawls than Conservative have read Kirk.<br /><br />The moral principle you are referring to is J.S. Mill's harm principle. Your view that the state can only (or perhaps primarily) proscribe behavior that harms others means that (1) you cannot justify laws that prohibit things like assisted suicide, and (2) there are harmful behaviors you likely Thomas M. Cothranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07824873424225826685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-6808951861346676772012-10-01T10:39:05.927-04:002012-10-01T10:39:05.927-04:00That latter bit about Rawls sounds far-fetched, I ...That latter bit about Rawls sounds far-fetched, I know, but essentially that is the sort of thing left-wing regimes do all over the world. "Re-education camps."Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12974887002402743628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-5226513612814156662012-10-01T10:37:03.031-04:002012-10-01T10:37:03.031-04:00In my opinion, it is the role of government to mak...In my opinion, it is the role of government to make moral decisions and enforce them. Without the underpinning of morality, government is really no different than thugocracy.<br /><br />But the question I raised earlier was whether government has the moral right to make you, Thomas -- or me, Lee -- do something you don't want to do for the simple reason that it is in your personal best Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12974887002402743628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-56990435875747529962012-10-01T09:16:38.573-04:002012-10-01T09:16:38.573-04:00Then it would be true to say that in some circumst...Then it would be true to say that in some circumstances, the government should intervene to protect some moral good whether or not the parties on whom it is imposed agree that it is a moral good or consent to the imposition?Thomas M. Cothranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07824873424225826685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-32272208781994099692012-10-01T07:40:34.357-04:002012-10-01T07:40:34.357-04:00> Now you are saying that the state can use coe...> Now you are saying that the state can use coercion regulate the provision of medical care for the good of individuals involved to override their own judgments about what is good (i.e., human life).<br /><br />Your construction is correct only if one grants that assisted suicide is medical care.Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12974887002402743628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-56493294885790522802012-09-30T20:10:55.270-04:002012-09-30T20:10:55.270-04:00I actually agree with the idea that the purpose of...I actually agree with the idea that the purpose of the state is respect for human life, but it seems as though you are waffling.<br /><br />You originally said that you did not think the government should not have the power to make decisions decisions for the good of individuals (presumably that they have not consented to). Now you are saying that the state can use coercion regulate the provisionThomas M. Cothranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07824873424225826685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-71491286301923160972012-09-30T20:03:20.115-04:002012-09-30T20:03:20.115-04:00> So ... the state should not regulate medical ...> So ... the state should not regulate medical services to criminalize physician assisted suicide?<br /><br />There's a reason I call myself a conservative and not a libertarian. Any libertarian impulses I have are not because I think the individual is sovereign, but because I distrust government and do not want to give them the slightest excuse to disrespect human life.<br /><br />The Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12974887002402743628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-85417040575069190132012-09-30T19:12:06.131-04:002012-09-30T19:12:06.131-04:00Lee,
"I don't trust politicians with the...Lee,<br /><br />"I don't trust politicians with the power to regulate the commercial dispensation of death."<br /><br />So ... the state should not regulate medical services to criminalize physician assisted suicide?Thomas M. Cothranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07824873424225826685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-54991506368473409532012-09-30T17:55:41.740-04:002012-09-30T17:55:41.740-04:00> Nothing you have said leads me to believe you...> Nothing you have said leads me to believe you can articulate a reason for keeping assisted suicide illegal without violating your neo-liberal/libertarian principles.<br /><br />I don't trust politicians with the power to regulate the commercial dispensation of death. That has more than an academic importance if the government proceeds to take over our health care. You know, conflicts Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12974887002402743628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-76691233442669635862012-09-30T15:22:08.264-04:002012-09-30T15:22:08.264-04:00Lee,
Nothing you have said leads me to believe yo...Lee,<br /><br />Nothing you have said leads me to believe you can articulate a reason for keeping assisted suicide illegal without violating your neo-liberal/libertarian principles. Your church may condemn it, but you make the decision yourself whether to abide by it, and your church cannot force you to do otherwise. I suppose that's an admission that your political philosophy does not have Thomas M. Cothranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07824873424225826685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-40933617811108507012012-09-30T14:51:24.407-04:002012-09-30T14:51:24.407-04:00> For example, you object to the government def...> For example, you object to the government defining the good. As a liberal, you hold that is an individual decision.<br /><br />To say that it is not a decision for government is not to say that it is necessarily an individual decision, at least not in the sense that I think you mean it. There are other institutions besides the government and the individual. The family and the church are Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12974887002402743628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-54879105592393825122012-09-30T13:17:35.541-04:002012-09-30T13:17:35.541-04:00"When conservatism evacuates itself of the pr..."When conservatism evacuates itself of the principles of cultural conservation, it has become something else altogether.<br /><br />Which is just another way of saying that any conservatism that does not conserve should call itself something else."<br /><br />Amen. They call themselves Neocons, the ideological progeny of Irving Kristol. It was Kristol who utilized the philosophy of Old Rebelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11146916266682461688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-66084418617548920542012-09-30T13:17:12.638-04:002012-09-30T13:17:12.638-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Old Rebelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11146916266682461688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-67546725231836967472012-09-28T15:23:18.224-04:002012-09-28T15:23:18.224-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.ZPennhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06458557784506441308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-73667127103951371932012-09-28T14:50:50.117-04:002012-09-28T14:50:50.117-04:00Lee,
What arguments have you read for a living wa...Lee,<br /><br />What arguments have you read for a living wage? Because I have no idea what you are talking about.<br /><br />You seem to think that in order to advocate a living wage, one has to establish a precise dollar amount that demarcates a living wage from a non-living wage. But this is as silly as saying that in order to distinguish a few grains of sand which do not constitute a heap Thomas M. Cothranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07824873424225826685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-71149292735449040842012-09-28T14:44:01.191-04:002012-09-28T14:44:01.191-04:00I think we're eliding two conversations here. ...I think we're eliding two conversations here. The first is what the genus of liberalism is and what species it contains. Nothing you have said indicates you disagree with the taxonomy I offered: the three differentia of the genus of liberalism and the species which fall under it.<br /><br />The second conversation is which of these species has the better interpretation of the three conditionsThomas M. Cothranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07824873424225826685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-82386839332223245392012-09-28T14:26:16.602-04:002012-09-28T14:26:16.602-04:00> Neither of these assumptions is made by catho...> Neither of these assumptions is made by catholic social teachers, nor any other living wage advocate that I am familiar with. <br /><br />Of course they don't. Havign to specify demystifies their assertions and ruins the rhetorical ambience. That's what the term "living wage" is: pure rhetoric.Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12974887002402743628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-77974092741596644022012-09-28T14:24:27.723-04:002012-09-28T14:24:27.723-04:00> I'm not sure you're grasping the conc...> I'm not sure you're grasping the concept of positive liberty. Coercion is necessary to secure both positive and negative liberty. We pay for police departments, we have laws prohibiting assault, trespass, harassment, and so on. All these inhibit autonomous wills for the sake of securing negative freedom.<br /><br />I understand you just fine. And I would say that liberals obviously Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12974887002402743628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-83040666080070660542012-09-28T13:35:41.117-04:002012-09-28T13:35:41.117-04:00As far as the issue of a living wage goes, I'm...As far as the issue of a living wage goes, I'm not sure from your objections that you're familiar with the concept. For instance, you seem to assume (1) that proponents of a living wage must establish the level of the wage in abstraction from particular socio-economic conditions and historical eras, and (2) that in order to be coherent, there must be some precise number above which is a Thomas M. Cothranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07824873424225826685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-45326633270125629852012-09-28T13:27:49.149-04:002012-09-28T13:27:49.149-04:00"If I'm forced to do something I don'..."If I'm forced to do something I don't want to do, a liberal can call it 'positive freedom' all he wants, but how come I feel less free?"<br /><br />I'm not sure you're grasping the concept of positive liberty. Coercion is necessary to secure <i>both</i> positive and negative liberty. We pay for police departments, we have laws prohibiting assault, trespass, Thomas M. Cothranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07824873424225826685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-20942431617010996322012-09-28T13:20:33.813-04:002012-09-28T13:20:33.813-04:00Brooks was blinded by the sharp crease of Obama...Brooks was blinded by the sharp crease of Obama's slacks and his superficial intelligence. No wonder the New York Times makes room for his constipated navel gazings.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-89015220070077561172012-09-28T11:57:59.946-04:002012-09-28T11:57:59.946-04:00> Now there are Catholics who do not follow the...> Now there are Catholics who do not follow the teaching of their church—on the left some deny abortion is a moral evil and on the right many deny that paying less than a living wage is a mortal sin...<br /><br />Problem is, there is no such thing as a quantifiable "living wage".<br /><br />And if there were, you cannot arbitarily dictate that a given employer pay a given employee $XLeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12974887002402743628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-32218975190748849352012-09-28T11:36:54.576-04:002012-09-28T11:36:54.576-04:00> All this because Romney is a stiff of a candi...> All this because Romney is a stiff of a candidate...<br /><br />Romney is playing "Prevent Defense", which any football fan can tell you, the only thing that prevents is your side from winning.<br /><br />But it's right out of the mainstream Republican playbook. Say nothing that can be construed as "controversial", "hardline" or "ultra-conservative&Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12974887002402743628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-53305804818771101482012-09-28T11:29:45.175-04:002012-09-28T11:29:45.175-04:00And that's where the coercion comes in... whos...And that's where the coercion comes in... whose will is it? There always needs to be someone to define what "everyone really wants."<br /><br />If I'm forced to do something I don't want to do, a liberal can call it "positive freedom" all he wants, but how come I feel less free?Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12974887002402743628noreply@blogger.com