tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post4129236132576212321..comments2024-03-28T15:39:28.239-04:00Comments on Vital Remnants: Who's being violent to whom?Martin Cothranhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16452612266051351726noreply@blogger.comBlogger27125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-54455036968985920222008-05-03T00:10:00.000-04:002008-05-03T00:10:00.000-04:00The point of having "hate crimes" legislation is n...The point of having "hate crimes" legislation is not to mete out harsher punishment for the same essential offense. It's to redefine the nature of "offense".<BR/><BR/>As Mr. Cochran points out, capital punishment is the worst punishment our justice system has to offer. If you believe someone who murders a gay ought to be executed, same as someone who murders a straight, then that can hardly be Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12974887002402743628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-39623319135508929402008-04-16T13:12:00.000-04:002008-04-16T13:12:00.000-04:00It's on your own blog, Motheral; does it count?It's on your own blog, Motheral; does it count?Hannahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01245769983222676482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-53433531352384395262008-04-16T11:09:00.000-04:002008-04-16T11:09:00.000-04:00Motheral, have ever written a positive comment on ...<I>Motheral, have ever written a positive comment on someone's website? Ever?</I><BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://motherwell.livejournal.com/36454.html" REL="nofollow">Yes.</A><BR/><BR/><I>Poor, poor Martin. Spanked on his own blog by Motheral.</I><BR/><BR/>I might just make him like it yet.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-76263140203043165462008-04-15T17:57:00.000-04:002008-04-15T17:57:00.000-04:00Poor, poor Martin. Spanked on his own blog by Mot...Poor, poor Martin. Spanked on his own blog by Motheral.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-66654158062545003952008-04-15T16:03:00.000-04:002008-04-15T16:03:00.000-04:00Ah yes. Motheral. The Apostle of Love. I just b...Ah yes. Motheral. The Apostle of Love. I just bath myself in the positive vibes he emits as he lectures me on the evils of hatefulness.<BR/><BR/>He thinks every logical inference from someone else's position (except those he draws from what I say) are illicit, and every figure of speech used to characterize someone else's position (except those he uses) a literal summary of it.<BR/><BR/>When IMartin Cothranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16452612266051351726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-4749706517687738492008-04-15T15:00:00.000-04:002008-04-15T15:00:00.000-04:00One of the things that ends up happening in this k...<I>One of the things that ends up happening in this kind of environment is having your personal integrity gets questioned merely because you hold a certain opinion.</I><BR/><BR/>No, Martin, your personal integrity is being questioned because you're behaving dishonestly: misrepresenting what others said, then pretending not to understand it, changing the subject (or just vanishing) when one of Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-66414977410562460512008-04-15T14:30:00.000-04:002008-04-15T14:30:00.000-04:00Anonymous,I can perfectly well understand your sen...Anonymous,<BR/><BR/>I can perfectly well understand your sentiment here. It is easy to fall into the "I'm right and you're not" kind of discussion. As Jah kindly pointed out, I am fairly liberal in my comments policy, and, unfortunately, this does not always lend itself to the most rational environment for discussion. <BR/><BR/>I have had several of my friends encourage me to just pull the Martin Cothranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16452612266051351726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-52812374458708689302008-04-15T08:45:00.000-04:002008-04-15T08:45:00.000-04:00I realize, in doing this, that I am once again goi...<I>I realize, in doing this, that I am once again going beyond what you are yourself willing to go.</I><BR/><BR/>Coming from someone who first mocked and belittled those who criticized anti-gay discrimination, then hastily made all the necessary condemnations AFTER being proven wrong, this assertion is just plain laughable. Are you even serious?<BR/><BR/><I>In fact, it is rather ironic that you Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-50500893376639268332008-04-14T20:47:00.000-04:002008-04-14T20:47:00.000-04:00Curious anon,What did you intend your post to acco...Curious anon,<BR/><BR/>What did you intend your post to accomplish? Could you give an example of a post which might accomplish something productive? Otherwise, quite frankly, it appears that you are just criticizing and not contributing anything useful.<BR/><BR/>[And as sarcastic as that may sound, it is also serious.]<BR/><BR/>jah<BR/><BR/>And I have to say one thing nice about Mr Cothran: He, Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-66702335407951633072008-04-14T20:40:00.000-04:002008-04-14T20:40:00.000-04:00I was trying to show that Mr Cothran's comment abo...I was trying to show that Mr Cothran's comment about gay-on-gay violence has nothing to do with attacks on people solely due to their sexual orientation. I suggest that gay-on-gay violence is precipitated by the same motivations which produce heterosexual-on-heterosexual violence.<BR/>Gays are attacked (fairly often) because they are gay whereas heterosexuals are not attacked (to my knowledge) Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-78778371860803711942008-04-14T20:22:00.000-04:002008-04-14T20:22:00.000-04:00I'm curious: What does this conversation accomplis...I'm curious: What does this conversation accomplish? I don't see any substantive discussion of any real issues. Instead it's "evil bender said this", "Martin Cothran said that", and so on. All sides of this debate seem far more concerned with proving the other person wrong than in accomplishing anything productive, and quite frankly, it's petty.<BR/><BR/>Just a thought.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-51144065165246617162008-04-14T18:56:00.000-04:002008-04-14T18:56:00.000-04:00Jah,How many such reported attacks on heterosexual...Jah,<BR/><BR/><I>How many such reported attacks on heterosexuals are there in the US?</I><BR/><BR/>I have no idea. What does that have to do with the argument? Evil Bender said that homosexuals were not responsible for violence against gays. I pointed out that most of the violence perpetrated against gays is by gays through domestic violence.<BR/><BR/>And you better not compare gay domestic Martin Cothranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16452612266051351726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-62798971795468609312008-04-14T18:51:00.000-04:002008-04-14T18:51:00.000-04:00Motheral,I condemned the murderers of Matthew Shep...Motheral,<BR/><BR/>I condemned the murderers of Matthew Shepherd (going farther about it, in fact, than you were willing to go), and said that people who commit violence against gays by saying that they should be locked up. I will also add that I think hateful language (like some of the name-calling that you employ on this blog--and others apparently) used against any humans (homosexual or Martin Cothranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16452612266051351726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-70829718961279403252008-04-14T17:31:00.000-04:002008-04-14T17:31:00.000-04:00I thought the discussion was about physical violen...I thought the discussion was about physical violence against people solely because of sexual orientation. How many such reported attacks on heterosexuals are there in the US? Mr Cothran brought up gay-gay domestic violence; yet that pales in comparison to heterosexual domestic violence, estimated by the site below to be 960,000 to 3,000,000 million cases per year.<BR/>http://endabuse.org/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-37205627158664108662008-04-14T17:23:00.000-04:002008-04-14T17:23:00.000-04:00I'll be happy to condemn any action that meets all...<I>I'll be happy to condemn any action that meets all the criteria that you laid out.</I><BR/><BR/>Okay...Any time now...We're waiting...<BR/><BR/><I>The problem is, of course,...that the minute anyone expresses any opinion in conflict with activist gay organizations, they immediately are labeled bigots.</I><BR/><BR/>Why is that a "problem?" If you're "happy" to condemn the hateful rhetoric and Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-64041778275453938052008-04-14T15:45:00.000-04:002008-04-14T15:45:00.000-04:00Motheral,I chose all the arguments I used and I li...Motheral,<BR/><BR/>I chose all the arguments I used and I like them just fine. The fact that you don't, with all due respect, is not my problem.<BR/><BR/>I'll be happy to condemn any action that meets all the criteria that you laid out. The problem is, of course, (and the this was the point of my original post) that the minute anyone expresses any opinion in conflict with activist gay Martin Cothranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16452612266051351726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-6046488651342462662008-04-13T13:30:00.000-04:002008-04-13T13:30:00.000-04:00Sure, Martin, I'll join you in demanding capital p...Sure, Martin, I'll join you in demanding capital punishment for Matthew Shephard's murderers, when you join me in repudiating all of the "Christian" rhetoric and "interpretations" of the Bible that are curretnly used to dehumanize gays and lesbians, justify treating them as second-class citizens (if not as deadly threats), blame them for all of society's current ills, threaten divine punishment Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-30310104343087303952008-04-13T08:15:00.000-04:002008-04-13T08:15:00.000-04:00Yes, I did answer you. Since you're too lazy to sc...<I>Yes, I did answer you. Since you're too lazy to scroll up and see it, I'll just paste it here: 'I don't have to "join you" in condemnig hate-crimes: I've been doing so for many years already.' Is that clear enough for you?</I><BR/><BR/>Well that was sufficiently ambiguous. Do you mean you are inviting me to infer something from what you said? Every time I've done that before you complain Martin Cothranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16452612266051351726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-68586348879875832042008-04-12T17:23:00.000-04:002008-04-12T17:23:00.000-04:00I assume you know the difference between an assert...<I>I assume you know the difference between an assertion and a question.</I><BR/><BR/>Yes, and I also know when a lie is being thinly disguised as a question. "How many underage girls did Cothran rape in Texas?" is a good example here. Hey, I was just ASKING, right?<BR/><BR/><I>I asked if you supported it. You still haven't answered me.</I><BR/><BR/>Yes, I did answer you. Since you're too lazyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-2033230539037314092008-04-12T17:03:00.000-04:002008-04-12T17:03:00.000-04:00Motheral,I assume you know the difference between ...Motheral,<BR/><BR/>I assume you know the difference between an assertion and a question. I never made any assertion about where you stood on the death penalty for the murderers of Matthew Shepherd. I asked if you supported it. You still haven't answered me.<BR/><BR/>Why is this so hard for you? Are you for it or aren't you?Martin Cothranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16452612266051351726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-51623056194786993282008-04-12T16:54:00.000-04:002008-04-12T16:54:00.000-04:00Martin, your last post was one of the most ridicul...Martin, your last post was one of the most ridiculous non-sequiturs I've seen since...well, since the last time a creationist or an Iraq-war-supporter opened his mouth. Where, for starters, can you POSSIBLY find any basis for your insinuation that I want to punish certain murderers LESS than you do?<BR/><BR/>Your tactic of throwing a totally bogus accusation under the word "if" is transparently Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-51463290305343954102008-04-12T16:49:00.000-04:002008-04-12T16:49:00.000-04:00Besides, Martin, I don't have to "join you" in con...Besides, Martin, I don't have to "join you" in condemnig hate-crimes: I've been doing so for many years already. It's you who have "joined" me, by changing your tune in haste, AFTER you realize you've made yourself look like a horse's ass.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-57240475623772874802008-04-12T16:47:00.000-04:002008-04-12T16:47:00.000-04:00Motheral,In case you didn't notice, you accused me...Motheral,<BR/><BR/>In case you didn't notice, you accused me of excusing the murderers of Matthew Shepherd. So I figure if you want to punish them <I>less</I> than I do--and I'm so soft on the issue, then what does that say about what you think about the murders?<BR/><BR/>So are you with me?Martin Cothranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16452612266051351726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-27552106664083496372008-04-12T16:42:00.000-04:002008-04-12T16:42:00.000-04:00Martin: what, exactly, makes you think I DON'T sup...Martin: what, exactly, makes you think I DON'T support capital punishment for people who commit such crimes? I certainly don't remember saying anything to excuse or belittle the magnitude of such crimes; so I really don't see why you'd have to ask me this quesiton.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-71426620224434289572008-04-12T16:27:00.000-04:002008-04-12T16:27:00.000-04:00Dear Martin,Thank you for continuing to shift the ...Dear Martin,<BR/><BR/>Thank you for continuing to shift the goalposts, make irrelevant points, refuse to ever admit you were wrong, change the subject, and lie about my positions.<BR/><BR/>You've made a wonderful demonstration of the vacuousness of your position. I won't be bothering with you in the future.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com