tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post4708213964247801944..comments2024-03-04T05:55:35.225-05:00Comments on Vital Remnants: Pope Benedict: Better than his criticsMartin Cothranhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16452612266051351726noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-59862086288125175482010-04-11T13:25:53.638-04:002010-04-11T13:25:53.638-04:00I misspoke: it was the priest himself who was appe...I misspoke: it was the priest himself who was appealing to Rome; the local bishop was supporting his request. That doesn't really help with the misinformation campaign either.Thomas M. Cothranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07824873424225826685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-48910583366618646912010-04-11T13:24:32.755-04:002010-04-11T13:24:32.755-04:00You seem to think that Ratzinger was in charge of ...You seem to think that Ratzinger was in charge of a disciplinary hearing for Mr. Kiesle. He wasn't (he didn't have the power to at the time, unless the priest abused the sacrament of confession); that was left up to his bishop. Nor was Kiesle practicing as a priest. Nor did the local bishop lack the power to remove Kiesle from the ministry (from what I can tell, the bishop did). Saying Thomas M. Cothranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07824873424225826685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-78314050589728074782010-04-11T12:27:50.039-04:002010-04-11T12:27:50.039-04:00Thomas,
I don't know where you got the two y...Thomas, <br /><br />I don't know where you got the two years from. <br /><br />I'm talking about this case: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/10/world/europe/10pope.html?ref=europe. In that case, there was a six year gap from request to action, and during that period, the self-admitted molester was able to present himself as a priest when volunteering to "help" with a youth SPWestonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08602329486466534720noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-58699216634742698522010-04-10T14:49:09.706-04:002010-04-10T14:49:09.706-04:00I'm unclear what you're getting at. The Po...I'm unclear what you're getting at. The Pope was not dealing with an abuse trial. Disciplinary action was handled by the local bishop, not by the Vatican (though there is a centralized process for that now, which you can thank Benedict for). There was no coverup. <br /><br />The question sent to the Vatican was not whether the priest can continue to serve as a priest or whether he should Thomas M. Cothranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07824873424225826685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-9066906001775350282010-04-10T09:53:10.158-04:002010-04-10T09:53:10.158-04:00Thomas,
A guilty plea in open court IS due proces...Thomas,<br /><br />A guilty plea in open court IS due process. The Oakland priest admitted he did to molesting children. The bishop asked to have him removed from the priesthood in 1981. The cardinal didn't answer the petition until 1985, and then he said more time should be taken with the decision.SPWestonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08602329486466534720noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-22333671568255267892010-04-09T22:09:46.836-04:002010-04-09T22:09:46.836-04:00He must be one of those savages that believes in d...He must be one of those savages that believes in due process. Why do we even have trials for accused pedophiles at all? Why can't we just convict someone based on something we read on the internet?Thomas M. Cothranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07824873424225826685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-14696461377240557222010-04-09T20:28:37.769-04:002010-04-09T20:28:37.769-04:00Notice the report on the case where the priest ple...Notice the report on the case where the priest plead guilty to molestation and the Cardinal wanted a careful study about whether to let him stay a priest? http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6385P720100410SPWestonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08602329486466534720noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-45699071339711396812010-04-07T23:34:12.290-04:002010-04-07T23:34:12.290-04:00Martin,
Have you seen me defending anyone who pau...Martin,<br /><br />Have you seen me defending anyone who pauses for ten seconds before handling such a case? <br /><br />Or defending the boss of anyone who pauses for ten seconds?SPWestonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08602329486466534720noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-63190629633748366022010-04-07T18:45:24.428-04:002010-04-07T18:45:24.428-04:00Susan,
I'm also trying to more fully understa...Susan,<br /><br />I'm also trying to more fully understand the position of someone fully ensconced in the public education establishment criticizing the Church's handling of such cases.<br /><br />Maybe you could help me there.Martin Cothranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16452612266051351726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-63045098730300220872010-04-07T15:59:46.032-04:002010-04-07T15:59:46.032-04:00Susan,
Where was I defending lengthy delays? I w...Susan,<br /><br />Where was I defending lengthy delays? I was arguing 1)That Ratzinger wasn't responsible for them, and 2)that Archbishop Weakland was.<br /><br />Neither one of those argument is a defense of the lengthy delays.Martin Cothranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16452612266051351726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-71614391641049087662010-04-07T15:21:25.519-04:002010-04-07T15:21:25.519-04:00Martin,
I do hope you'll share this post with...Martin,<br /><br />I do hope you'll share this post with parents in the institutions where you work with students. <br /><br />For example, though you and I both pray it will never happen, someone working in one of those organizations may someday be accused of having raped a child.<br /><br />In that case, the parents will certainly want to know that you'll be ready to defend lengthy SPWestonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08602329486466534720noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-26005206242137612922010-04-06T23:39:58.903-04:002010-04-06T23:39:58.903-04:00Nice posts, all, particularly Thomas' insights...Nice posts, all, particularly Thomas' insights on the blame game. See Conquest's First Law of Politics.Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12974887002402743628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-41930614116190735802010-04-06T17:02:24.550-04:002010-04-06T17:02:24.550-04:00Nice work, Martin.
One of the other problems is t...Nice work, Martin.<br /><br />One of the other problems is that many of these bishops relied on "experts" in psychiatry and psychology on how to deal with these wicked men. Too many churchmen, therefore, took a matter of sin and medicalized it. This is the modern way of doing things, the sort of posture that Dawkins, Brayton, and others suggest we emulate in every aspect of our lives.Francis Beckwithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03765632359220115150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-82517088486758058062010-04-06T15:20:55.941-04:002010-04-06T15:20:55.941-04:00I'd like to see a good rundown of when these c...I'd like to see a good rundown of when these cases were reported and how many were outside the statute of limitations (which many of the cases are), and especially how many were in fact reported to civil authorities (I know that has happened in at least some of the cases).<br /><br />None of this excuses those bishops who were irresponsible (or downright evil), but the idea that this was a Thomas M. Cothranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07824873424225826685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-49200360711487400622010-04-06T13:22:31.169-04:002010-04-06T13:22:31.169-04:00Thomas,
Good points. Of course another problem i...Thomas,<br /><br />Good points. Of course another problem is that the cases don't get reported for many years after when the civil statute of limitations has run out. In the Milwaukee case, the ecclesiastical statute of limitations had also run out. The only reason they were still able to prosecute was because the priest had solicited boys in the confessional (talk about sickening), and Martin Cothranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16452612266051351726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-59708434299110556082010-04-06T12:48:23.612-04:002010-04-06T12:48:23.612-04:00One of the more compelling criticisms of the way t...One of the more compelling criticisms of the way the Catholic church has handled the cases is that they haven't reported the cases to the police. However, what's often overlooked is that many of these cases aren't reported until the statute of limitations are up, or those who report it don't want the publicity of a criminal trial.<br /><br />Other than isolated cases of corrupt Thomas M. Cothranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07824873424225826685noreply@blogger.com