tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post5170288145033446482..comments2024-03-28T15:39:28.239-04:00Comments on Vital Remnants: Is there such a thing as natural selection?Martin Cothranhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16452612266051351726noreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-73652246063616962512014-02-10T13:47:56.518-05:002014-02-10T13:47:56.518-05:00Martin Cothran said...
So you don't make a dis...Martin Cothran said...<br /><i>So you don't make a distinction between "can't" and "doesn't"?</i><br /><br />We used to go to a place called the Tilt House (IIRC) at Six Flags. It would appear to have things like water running uphill and billiard balls rolling upwards. Yet, I'm quite comfortable saying that could not have been true, because gravity does not One Browhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11938816242512563561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-11442326334002735682014-02-08T20:35:19.992-05:002014-02-08T20:35:19.992-05:00That's not how the world works. That's wh...That's not how the world works. That's why they call them 'miracles'.Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12974887002402743628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-74670706823928310802014-02-08T14:04:53.929-05:002014-02-08T14:04:53.929-05:00I'm very grateful, Lee.
You're being ver...I'm very grateful, Lee. <br /><br />You're being very generous with your wisdom. <br /><br />As a believer in satanic forces that let staffs turn into snakes, you're ideally positioned to explain to others how the world works. Singringhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02180277470418724600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-41424768783463815732014-02-08T08:57:39.351-05:002014-02-08T08:57:39.351-05:00Well, Singring, it seemed like you needed help. T...Well, Singring, it seemed like you needed help. That's what I'm here for.Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12974887002402743628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-69654453545676555162014-02-08T04:48:35.677-05:002014-02-08T04:48:35.677-05:00Thanks for clearing that up, Lee.
Thanks to the s...Thanks for clearing that up, Lee.<br /><br />Thanks to the satanic powers of the dark legions, now of course it all makes sense!<br /><br />Singringhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02180277470418724600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-14747910937977783072014-02-07T15:41:38.260-05:002014-02-07T15:41:38.260-05:00I don't know why being a Christian precludes b...I don't know why being a Christian precludes believing in Hindu miracles, or miracles from any other sect, religion, cult or unknown source.<br /><br />In the account of Moses' confrontation with the Pharoah (the first, I think), Moses' staff turned into a serpent as a demonstration of God's power.<br /><br />Pharoah's magicians then threw down their staffs and they too becameLeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12974887002402743628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-71173157134230754912014-02-06T16:10:23.534-05:002014-02-06T16:10:23.534-05:00Just read a story which includes a discussion by a...Just read a story which includes a discussion by a real scientist concerning her faith in the Resurrection:<br />http://www.slate.com/blogs/saletan/2014/02/06/creationism_science_and_religion_can_a_nasa_scientist_believe_in_the_resurrection.htmlKyCobbnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-24059680372961513012014-02-04T18:58:14.595-05:002014-02-04T18:58:14.595-05:00'You asked me why we should believe in miracle...'You asked me why we should believe in miracles of any religion and I said on the basis of historical evidence.'<br /><br />No, you said that we should believe in the miracles of Christianity, Islam and Hinduism 'Because, like any other historical event, there is good historical evidence for them.'<br /><br />You know, for someone who just wrote a whole post accusing scientists ofSingringhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02180277470418724600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-15692456986448571842014-02-04T14:48:12.726-05:002014-02-04T14:48:12.726-05:00So you don't make a distinction between "...So you don't make a distinction between "can't" and "doesn't"?Martin Cothranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16452612266051351726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-75772438274859640052014-02-04T14:43:44.692-05:002014-02-04T14:43:44.692-05:00And I would also ask you, "If you believe nat...<i>And I would also ask you, "If you believe natural laws are merely descriptive, then why do you argue that miracles cannot happen because they 'violate the laws of nature'--a position that assumes that the laws are prescriptive rather than descriptive?</i><br /><br />Arguing that miracles can't happen, because the world simply doesn't work that way, is still descriptive. One Browhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11938816242512563561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-22723397848786973442014-02-04T14:01:24.392-05:002014-02-04T14:01:24.392-05:00You asked me why we should believe in miracles of ...You asked me why we should believe in miracles of any religion and I said on the basis of historical evidence. In other words, that's the criterion upon which you judge whether a miraculous event happened or not. I didn't say I thought Hindu miracles met that criterion, I was just stating the general principle.Martin Cothranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16452612266051351726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-85007670225196056052014-02-04T13:46:16.568-05:002014-02-04T13:46:16.568-05:00So you think there is 'good historical evidenc...So you think there is 'good historical evidence' for. Hindu miracles? Interesting! So you accept claims of hindu gods performing miracles? If so, why are you not a hindu?Singringhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02180277470418724600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-34436734794649383612014-02-04T11:31:18.507-05:002014-02-04T11:31:18.507-05:00Because, like any other historical event, there is...Because, like any other historical event, there is good historical evidence for them.Martin Cothranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16452612266051351726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-79312242713435447462014-02-04T03:14:26.535-05:002014-02-04T03:14:26.535-05:00'Why should I believe in the miracles proposed...'Why should I believe in the miracles proposed by Islam, Hinduism, or New Agers?'<br /><br />Why should we believe in the miracles of Christianity, Islam, Hinduism - or any other religion?Singringhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02180277470418724600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-41271706322759926172014-02-03T20:07:35.095-05:002014-02-03T20:07:35.095-05:00Why should I believe in the miracles proposed by I...Why should I believe in the miracles proposed by Islam, Hinduism, or New Agers?Martin Cothranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16452612266051351726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-56825705857995491642014-02-03T19:39:32.892-05:002014-02-03T19:39:32.892-05:00Martin, aren't there a lot of miracles that yo...Martin, aren't there a lot of miracles that you DON'T believe in? It would be interesting to find that you believe various Christian miracles, but not those proposed by Islam, Hinduism, or New Agers.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-43544600201521979452014-02-03T17:17:36.163-05:002014-02-03T17:17:36.163-05:00KyCobb,
Anecdotal evidence which cannot be replic...KyCobb,<br /><br /><i>Anecdotal evidence which cannot be replicated from people who lack our knowledge of natural phenomenon is a pretty thin reed of evidence to rely on for paranormal phenomenon.</i><br /><br />If it could be replicated it wouldn't be a miracle. That's like saying, "I just can't find the moons of Jupiter with my microscope." You're using the wrong Martin Cothranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16452612266051351726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-48986782242231744912014-02-03T17:14:01.654-05:002014-02-03T17:14:01.654-05:00KyCobb,
I agree that science has to stipulate the...KyCobb,<br /><br />I agree that science has to stipulate the consistency of natural events--that was principle first articulated by Adelard of Bath, someone who believed in miracles.<br /><br />But that is a completely different issue and has nothing to do with the issue of scientists who say they view natural law descriptively but talk--and sometimes reason, especially when it comes to the Martin Cothranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16452612266051351726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-87318525596586361012014-02-03T10:42:02.167-05:002014-02-03T10:42:02.167-05:00Martin,
As a practical matter, science has to exc...Martin,<br /><br />As a practical matter, science has to exclude the miraculous as an explanation, because it simply dead-ends research, and by assuming observable phenomenon have natural explanations, science has been enormously productive over the last couple of centuries, while the paranormal has been a stagnant field for millennia. So science excludes the miraculous by necessity, and its KyCobbnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-52179581890869522112014-02-03T01:58:36.703-05:002014-02-03T01:58:36.703-05:00KyCobb,
You could make that argument, but most of...KyCobb,<br /><br />You could make that argument, but most of the arguments I hear are not that miracles haven't happened, but that they <i>can't</i> happen. Thhat assumes the prescriptive view, and even when they make the descriptive argument (that miracles <i>haven't</i> happened, they keep the prescription assumption as a back-up. <br /><br />As Chesterton pointed out: "If we Martin Cothranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16452612266051351726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-79448159707783403992014-02-03T00:29:00.505-05:002014-02-03T00:29:00.505-05:00Martin,
"If you believe natural laws are me...Martin,<br /><br /> "If you believe natural laws are merely descriptive, then why do you argue that miracles cannot happen because they 'violate the laws of nature'--a position that assumes that the laws are prescriptive rather than descriptive?"<br /><br />In the post you wrote, "Second, and alternatively, there is the descriptive view: natural selection is not a thing in KyCobbnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-17738410180132003472014-02-02T11:07:55.605-05:002014-02-02T11:07:55.605-05:00Daniel,
Good question.
I would first ask you, &...Daniel,<br /><br />Good question. <br /><br />I would first ask you, "If you believe natural laws are merely descriptive, then why do you always talk about them as if their prescriptive?"<br /><br />And I would also ask you, "If you believe natural laws are merely descriptive, then why do you argue that miracles cannot happen because they 'violate the laws of nature'--a Martin Cothranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16452612266051351726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-795937160858896472014-02-02T10:04:54.418-05:002014-02-02T10:04:54.418-05:00Martin,
"But there is the same issue in rega...Martin,<br /><br />"But there is the same issue in regard to natural laws. Are they real in and of themselves? Do they have some prescriptive force on the things they are said to govern? Or are they simply descriptions constructed to fit a set of facts and events in the world?"<br /><br />I rather doubt that the Law of Gravity is standing behind a traffic cone somewhere out in space, Danielnoreply@blogger.com