tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post5672475143796581584..comments2024-03-28T15:39:28.239-04:00Comments on Vital Remnants: Who's Obsessed about the Birther issue?Martin Cothranhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16452612266051351726noreply@blogger.comBlogger90125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-620579791922473772011-05-06T04:23:54.924-04:002011-05-06T04:23:54.924-04:00That's some impressibe research you've don...That's some impressibe research you've done there, Lee. It seems to back up Human Event's claims to some degree, though I still see no evidence of 'bargain basement' prices or 'corpse scavenging'. Buffett simply used the opportunity to buy businesses at a fair price and kept the management in place.<br /><br />I'll concede that you may call that 'profiteering&#Singringhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02180277470418724600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-32657225257900209392011-05-05T20:08:29.567-04:002011-05-05T20:08:29.567-04:00> But it just strikes me as unreasonable to cla...> But it just strikes me as unreasonable to claim that Buffett is somehow being hypocritical when wanting the estate tax to stay in place - after all, it is why he is going to give his money to charity, rather than leave it as inheritance...<br /><br />And note, please, that as much as Buffett expresses admiration for the estate tax, he has things set up so that none will be paid on his Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12974887002402743628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-64432632526898146112011-05-05T19:19:57.400-04:002011-05-05T19:19:57.400-04:00Now for the questions and comments:
> That is ...Now for the questions and comments:<br /><br />> That is not the point, Lee. The point is that you cited a blog article that made some very strong claims about the estate tax and Buffett's business practice but then on closer inspection did not back those claims up.<br /><br />Do I have to exceed the standards you set for yourself, Singring, or just meet them? Here's another strong Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12974887002402743628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-51634923235374902142011-05-05T18:10:55.966-04:002011-05-05T18:10:55.966-04:00I've still been researching the Buffett-Estate...I've still been researching the Buffett-Estate Tax-Money connection, and found some interesting stuff, mostly from the "puff" pieces about Buffett scattered here and there on the Internet.<br /><br />I have no idea who Robert Miles is, but he wrote this:<br /><br />http://www.robertpmiles.com/BuffettSchool.htm<br /><br />...and he gushed this:<br /><br />> "Estate taxes Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12974887002402743628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-11034717127219839642011-05-05T04:22:26.197-04:002011-05-05T04:22:26.197-04:00'I can't prove DQ had to sell because of i...'I can't prove DQ had to sell because of impending estate taxes.'<br /><br />That is not the point, Lee. The point is that you cited a blog article that made some very strong claims about the estate tax and Buffett's business practice but then on closer inspection did not back those claims up.<br /><br />That should make you very weary of their claims not only in this case, but inSingringhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02180277470418724600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-50252711416581816732011-05-04T22:26:24.383-04:002011-05-04T22:26:24.383-04:00Oh gosh, where to begin?
> Nope. My argument i...Oh gosh, where to begin?<br /><br />> Nope. My argument is very simple. There is simply no evidence that the estate tax played any part in teh sale of DQ and it is therefore a lie to claim there was as unambiguously as 'Human Events' did.<br /><br />Well, a lot of people seem to think that the estate tax was a motivating factor. It does seem odd timing if it was not -- right before Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12974887002402743628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-56973277917353062782011-05-03T20:08:15.678-04:002011-05-03T20:08:15.678-04:00Tell you what, OneBrow, I hereby present you with ...<i>Tell you what, OneBrow, I hereby present you with a bill for $10 million. Payable to me. Don't worry though. Money is cheap, and you can borrow it. Heck, I can even work out a payment schedule for you, if you need one.</i><br /><br />What's the $25 million dollar business I'm getting along with the bill?<br /><br /><i>A $10 million debt is only a problem for the people who have to One Browhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11938816242512563561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-75139317469506463712011-05-03T16:11:43.628-04:002011-05-03T16:11:43.628-04:00Lee, I have just found an article by someone who i...Lee, I have just found an article by someone who is apparently an economist who discusses precisely the article we are talking about and raises exactly the same objections I have raised:<br /><br />http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2010/12/14/is-warren-buffett-a-grinch.aspx<br /><br />I quote:<br /><br />'Mind you, the article [the one at 'Human Events] didn't provide any detail Singringhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02180277470418724600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-21852269068445446032011-05-03T15:36:32.632-04:002011-05-03T15:36:32.632-04:00Oops, sorry about that - I put the link in apostro...Oops, sorry about that - I put the link in apostrophes which probably was why it didn't load properly:<br /><br />http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3190/is_n44_v31/ai_20040408/<br /><br />The Orlando Sentinel link is OK, I think, as is the third link from the St Louis Business Journal works for me as well.<br /><br />'Do buy-out prices normally reflect the trading price? Do you have Singringhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02180277470418724600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-68243469955398162412011-05-03T15:08:00.183-04:002011-05-03T15:08:00.183-04:00> No, I conclude this from two articles which I...> No, I conclude this from two articles which I cited (two posts ago) in which no mention of the estate tax is made and one article in which this is expressly denied as a reason for the sale by both parties. <br /><br />Could you reproduce that link? The one two or three posts back doesn't work for me.<br /><br />> I also conclude this from the fact that the stock price offered by Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12974887002402743628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-30763405591213929382011-05-03T15:04:25.604-04:002011-05-03T15:04:25.604-04:00'And you conclude this from a survey of one ne...'And you conclude this from a survey of one newspaper article, which didn't contradict it, but only failed to mention it?'<br /><br />No, I conclude this from two articles which I cited (two posts ago) in which no mention of the estate tax is made and one article in which this is expressly denied as a reason for the sale by both parties. <br /><br />I also conclude this from the fact Singringhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02180277470418724600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-89948762491114135422011-05-03T14:46:06.564-04:002011-05-03T14:46:06.564-04:00> There is simply no evidence that the estate t...> There is simply no evidence that the estate tax played any part in teh sale of DQ and it is therefore a lie to claim there was as unambiguously as 'Human Events' did.<br /><br />And you conclude this from a survey of one newspaper article, which didn't contradict it, but only failed to mention it?Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12974887002402743628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-63941605132167017562011-05-03T14:39:21.249-04:002011-05-03T14:39:21.249-04:00'Is that your argument?'
Nope. My argumen...'Is that your argument?'<br /><br />Nope. My argument is very simple. There is simply no evidence that the estate tax played any part in teh sale of DQ and it is therefore a lie to claim there was as unambiguously as 'Human Events' did.<br /><br />Let me quote them again:<br /><br />'Mr. Buffett’s ability to buy family businesses at bargain basement prices depends on families Singringhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02180277470418724600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-80079023235883583022011-05-03T14:14:51.897-04:002011-05-03T14:14:51.897-04:00So here's the syllogism:
1. If the estate ta...So here's the syllogism:<br /><br />1. If the estate tax was a motivating factor for the sale, the newspaper article would have mentioned it.<br /><br />2. The newspaper article didn't mention it.<br /><br />3. Therefore, the estate tax was not a motivating factor.<br /><br />Is that your argument?Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12974887002402743628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-62368928696046170642011-05-03T14:04:26.737-04:002011-05-03T14:04:26.737-04:00Lee...prepare yourself for a shock.
'HUman Ev...Lee...prepare yourself for a shock.<br /><br />'HUman Events' told you a lie. Yes, I know - its hard to believe that such a trusted, well-researched institution that checks its facts, checks them again and then goes back and checks them again would do that, but there you go.<br /><br />Take a look at this article from the Orlando Sentinel (Oct. 1997):<br /><br />http://Singringhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02180277470418724600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-19029209198933572011-05-03T14:02:15.803-04:002011-05-03T14:02:15.803-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Singringhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02180277470418724600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-84203363086482194782011-05-03T13:32:13.209-04:002011-05-03T13:32:13.209-04:00There you go, OneBrow. It is not the original art...There you go, OneBrow. It is not the original article I read, but it contains the examples you have demanded.<br /><br />http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=15951<br /><br />Money graf:<br /><br /><b>"Even as Mr. Buffett’s insurance companies are “protecting” family businesses from the IRS, he is buying companies that are forced to sell themselves to pay the death tax. Mr. Buffett’s Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12974887002402743628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-72040918402503335482011-05-03T12:54:53.861-04:002011-05-03T12:54:53.861-04:00Lee said...
OneBrow, I submit that a $10 million ...Lee said... <br /><i>OneBrow, I submit that a $10 million loan (on a $25 million business) is a big deal. </i><br /><br />While staying completely silent on the fact that payment plans do get offered, and aaty only 3% interest, to boot.<br /><br /><i>And that was a hypothetical example. I read about some real cases years ago, but don't have them available.</i><br /><br />I'm sure you One Browhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11938816242512563561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-46191599894669870382011-05-03T09:49:42.783-04:002011-05-03T09:49:42.783-04:00'Singring, I was an idiot to get into another ...'Singring, I was an idiot to get into another discussion with you. I can't rectify that for the past, but only note that it won't happen again.'<br /><br />Always a pleasure.Singringhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02180277470418724600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-57123379757467904602011-05-03T09:48:10.690-04:002011-05-03T09:48:10.690-04:00'I don't see anything wrong with taking ad...'I don't see anything wrong with taking advantage of the legal environment, only in the posturing.'<br /><br />So then what was your whole Buffett rant meant to illustrate? That Buffett sometimes supports taxes that he himself profits from?<br /><br />That he is asking for higher taxes on capital gains and income because he well somehow secretly profit from it?<br /><br />Interesting.Singringhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02180277470418724600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-60956217227616381772011-05-03T09:43:00.106-04:002011-05-03T09:43:00.106-04:00Singring, I was an idiot to get into another discu...Singring, I was an idiot to get into another discussion with you. I can't rectify that for the past, but only note that it won't happen again.Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12974887002402743628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-57571551109751326222011-05-03T09:40:37.138-04:002011-05-03T09:40:37.138-04:00OneBrow, I submit that a $10 million loan (on a $2...OneBrow, I submit that a $10 million loan (on a $25 million business) is a big deal. And that was a hypothetical example. I read about some real cases years ago, but don't have them available.<br /><br />But the point is, here's this fellow who comes across like he's all for inheritance taxes for social reasons, when in fact he makes money on them.<br /><br />I don't see Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12974887002402743628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-80409371405173429012011-05-03T09:24:24.316-04:002011-05-03T09:24:24.316-04:00Here's how the Buffett inheritance tax strateg...<i>Here's how the Buffett inheritance tax strategy works. Consider a hypothetical company named Mom & Pop Shop. Mom and Pop started the company back in the 1960s, and eventually built it into a sizable business, worth, say, $25 million. Last year, Mom and Pop died, leaving the Kids. The Kids got a bill for the inheritance tax, for about $10 million (don't know the actual rate, I thinkOne Browhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11938816242512563561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-48059620751423058632011-05-03T08:47:46.304-04:002011-05-03T08:47:46.304-04:00'When Kennedy, Reagan, and Clinton all signed ...'When Kennedy, Reagan, and Clinton all signed into law reductions in capital-gains taxes, the result was increases in revenues. The lower rates brought out a lot of the capital that had been sitting on the fence at the higher rates.'<br /><br />Again you veer wildly from side to side on the issue. Just a couple posts ago you were criticizing the fact that Buffett is paying such low Singringhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02180277470418724600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-12445400796799293002011-05-03T08:28:01.534-04:002011-05-03T08:28:01.534-04:00'If I have to quit quoting Heritage, you have ...'If I have to quit quoting Heritage, you have to quit quoting Minnesota Public Radio.'<br /><br />Apparently you didn't even take the time to click on the link because it directly goes to the pdf of the peer-reviewed study.<br /><br />But hey - I get it. You read 'NPR' and your Tea-Party alarm-bells start a' ringing and you immediately think 'librul communist media!&#Singringhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02180277470418724600noreply@blogger.com