tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post7541608539587928827..comments2024-03-28T15:39:28.239-04:00Comments on Vital Remnants: A question about the inaugurationMartin Cothranhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16452612266051351726noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-49550649547404385792009-01-24T08:49:00.000-05:002009-01-24T08:49:00.000-05:00There is also no requirement for an inaugural addr...There is also no requirement for an inaugural address, or even a swearing-in ceremony at all. Some things are traditional.Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12974887002402743628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-44533538766282827712009-01-23T22:03:00.000-05:002009-01-23T22:03:00.000-05:00Turns out Obama didn't hold his hand on "the" Bibl...Turns out Obama didn't hold his hand on "the" Bible the second time he was sworn in. In fact, there was never a requirement that he had to make use of a Bible or any other "holy" book.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-62253552840775037762009-01-21T23:19:00.000-05:002009-01-21T23:19:00.000-05:00The principles of charity, compassion and equality...The principles of charity, compassion and equality that run rampant throughout the Bible have been suffused into American culture since the Founding. It strikes me as perhaps the prime reason behind American exceptionalism.solarityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03142631086947541154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-33413105099785790822009-01-21T19:56:00.000-05:002009-01-21T19:56:00.000-05:00> Lee, Rome did not become Christian. Rather, R...> Lee, Rome did not become Christian. Rather, Rome subsumed Christianity.<BR/><BR/>I think what I said was that there was a struggle in Rome between Christianity and Paganism, and that the Roman Church outlasted the Empire. I don't believe I said Rome became Christian, if by that you mean unambiguously Christian. What did I say that made you think I meant that?Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12974887002402743628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-45128595548368874242009-01-21T19:12:00.000-05:002009-01-21T19:12:00.000-05:00I guess that would make America the New Rome.That ...<I>I guess that would make America the New Rome.</I><BR/><BR/>That is precisely how many of the founders viewed it.Martin Cothranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16452612266051351726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-80133113320009307612009-01-21T18:29:00.000-05:002009-01-21T18:29:00.000-05:00Lee, Rome did not become Christian. Rather, Rome s...Lee, Rome did not become Christian. Rather, Rome subsumed Christianity.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-29512262197784722362009-01-21T14:32:00.000-05:002009-01-21T14:32:00.000-05:00> It seems to me that the distinguishing featur...> It seems to me that the distinguishing feature of Christianity is the Holy Trinity. If the swearing in ceremony included the words Father, Son and Holy Spirit, One God rather than the general term "so help me God" then maybe one could begin to claim that the swearing in ceremony was "Christian" in content. <BR/><BR/>I have not argued that America is a Christian nation, Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12974887002402743628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-37148942444777310532009-01-21T14:15:00.000-05:002009-01-21T14:15:00.000-05:00> Methinks a Christian nation wouldn't demo...> Methinks a Christian nation wouldn't demote the Bible to the status of a law book (John Quincy Adams) or nothing at all (Teddy Roosevelt).<BR/><BR/>Think of it as improving our ideas about what the laws ought to be, rather than demoting the Bible.<BR/><BR/>All laws are based on someone's idea about what constitutes "the good." Liberals simply want to leave the Bible out ofLeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12974887002402743628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-8583734572112700832009-01-21T13:11:00.000-05:002009-01-21T13:11:00.000-05:00The dominate religion of the men and women who est...The dominate religion of the men and women who established our nation was Protestant Christian.Many were also deists who valued the virtues found in the Bible. Out of this tradition the Bible was the religious text of the culture and thus the USA. The founding ideas of our nation are rooted in Greek,Roman and Hebrew/Christian traditions as well as some early enlightenment ideas. Just because a Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-66360787835695138752009-01-21T09:23:00.000-05:002009-01-21T09:23:00.000-05:00I wouldn't necessarily disagree with that, Art. B...I wouldn't necessarily disagree with that, Art. But the Roman Empire struggled in its declining years between choosing Christianity or Paganism. The masses preferred Christianity, and the "intelligentsia" (probably for aesthetic reasons rather than theological ones) held onto Paganism. Sound familiar? In the Reformed world view, it's quite possible that God ended the Roman Empire as a Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12974887002402743628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-29867848118347201252009-01-21T08:34:00.000-05:002009-01-21T08:34:00.000-05:00Well, if we're going to invoke influences and the ...Well, if we're going to invoke influences and the like, I guess we need to remember that Christianity as it unfolded in Europe (the alleged inspiration of our American ideals) is but an historical extension of the Roman Empire.<BR/><BR/>I guess that would make America the New Rome. <BR/><BR/>Now I've gotta go watch The Godfather.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-37962432069908983082009-01-21T07:42:00.000-05:002009-01-21T07:42:00.000-05:00There is a concept we Reformed folks call, "means ...There is a concept we Reformed folks call, "means of grace." In layman's terms, it means that the grace of God rubs off of people, even non-believing people, if they are exposed to His word and His people.<BR/><BR/>This would mean that even a civilization that prides itself as descending from the so-called "Age of Reason" can go a long way still, based on the Christian remnant that struggles Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12974887002402743628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-20625334172814014512009-01-21T02:30:00.000-05:002009-01-21T02:30:00.000-05:00Art,Is that the rule? Or the exception?Art,<BR/><BR/>Is that the rule? Or the exception?Martin Cothranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16452612266051351726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-28535430268541535372009-01-21T02:27:00.000-05:002009-01-21T02:27:00.000-05:00Anonymous,The fact that many of the Founders were ...Anonymous,<BR/><BR/>The fact that many of the Founders were not orthodox Christians is entirely irrelevant to whether this is a Christian nation. The only thing that matters is what principles they based this nation on, all of which were entirely Christian.<BR/><BR/>There were plenty of Deists, but even these men accepted Christian ethics as an unspoken assumption. Thomas Jefferson may have Martin Cothranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16452612266051351726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-12610999760689021542009-01-21T02:19:00.000-05:002009-01-21T02:19:00.000-05:00Anonymous,Have you checked out the Declaration? A...Anonymous,<BR/><BR/>Have you checked out the Declaration? And why is it necessary to America being a Christian nation that it legally require a president to be sworn in on a Bible?<BR/><BR/>And, no, I'm not a lawyer.Martin Cothranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16452612266051351726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-49940894511872979852009-01-21T00:36:00.000-05:002009-01-21T00:36:00.000-05:00Methinks a Christian nation wouldn't demote the Bi...Methinks a Christian nation wouldn't demote the Bible to the status of a law book (John Quincy Adams) or nothing at all (Teddy Roosevelt).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-86879630182919788522009-01-20T21:53:00.000-05:002009-01-20T21:53:00.000-05:00O Lord, please don't burn us,Don't grill or toast ...O Lord, please don't burn us,<BR/>Don't grill or toast your flock,<BR/>Don't put us on the barbecue,<BR/>Or simmer us in stock,<BR/>Don't braise or bake or boil us,<BR/>Or stir-fry us in a wok.<BR/><BR/>O please don't lightly poach us,<BR/>Or baste us with hot fat,<BR/>Don't fricassee or roast us,<BR/>Or boil us in a vat,<BR/>And please don't stick Thy servants, Lord,<BR/>In a Rotissomat.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-47201119554018953152009-01-20T21:43:00.000-05:002009-01-20T21:43:00.000-05:00Let us improve the economy by throwing a virgin in...Let us improve the economy by throwing a virgin in a volcano to appease the volcano gods. The method has always worked before and we don't dare tempt their wrath...What??? We're out of virgins? Oh crap!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-42376411627859912312009-01-20T19:34:00.000-05:002009-01-20T19:34:00.000-05:00> Of course we could abolish the separation of ...> Of course we could abolish the separation of church and state...<BR/><BR/>You have pointed out that the Constitution does not contain the words "Bible" or "God", so maybe it will matter to you that neither is the phrase "separation of church and state" contained in the Constitution.<BR/><BR/>Or is cherry-picking allowed?<BR/><BR/>> ...the Constitution, the Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12974887002402743628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-5062190270255713292009-01-20T19:31:00.000-05:002009-01-20T19:31:00.000-05:00And a good proportion of the framers of the Consti...And a good proportion of the framers of the Constitution were Christian, as well. And practically none were Muslim, Hindu, or Buddhist.<BR/><BR/>> It is interesting that God did not punish us or withhold his blessings for leaving mention of him out of the Constitution. <BR/><BR/>There was plenty of other mention of Him elsewhere, and plenty of belief in Him from its citizens.<BR/><BR/>I don&#Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12974887002402743628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-22324563594941924082009-01-20T19:25:00.000-05:002009-01-20T19:25:00.000-05:00Of course we could abolish the separation of churc...Of course we could abolish the separation of church and state, the Constitution, the PResident, and all thouse other anoying secular things and things would go like this from scene 7 of "Monty Python and the Holy Grail":<BR/><BR/>GOD: Arthur! Arthur, King of the Britons! Oh, don't grovel! If<BR/>there's one thing I can't stand, it's people groveling.<BR/><BR/>ARTHUR: Sorry--<BR/><BR/>GOD: And Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-42944201112770749742009-01-20T18:54:00.000-05:002009-01-20T18:54:00.000-05:00Actually, a good proportion of the founders were D...Actually, a good proportion of the founders were Deists and did not pray to the "Christian" God. They were products of the Enlightenment.<BR/> It is interesting that God did not punish us or withhold his blessings for leaving mention of him out of the Constitution. God runs the universe but will be upset with us if we don't invoke him at every public event. Sure.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-21371818998096524222009-01-20T18:34:00.000-05:002009-01-20T18:34:00.000-05:00If history means anything, we are indeed a nation ...If history means anything, we are indeed a nation of Christians and Jews. Muslims and Hindus? Not so much.<BR/><BR/>When the Constitution was written, they reached a stalemate. Ben Franklin suggested that they pray about it, and so spent the next three days in fasting and prayer. Then they came out and had the Constitution in three weeks.<BR/><BR/>I think they probably prayed to the ChristianLeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12974887002402743628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-61913110930066210692009-01-20T18:12:00.000-05:002009-01-20T18:12:00.000-05:00From Obama's speech today:"For we know that our pa...From Obama's speech today:<BR/>"For we know that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."<BR/><BR/>There is no legal requirement that the President be sworn in on a Bible. The US Constitution does not contain the words "Bible" or "God". It even states that there is no religious test for public office.<Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-41276561616224034062009-01-20T16:47:00.000-05:002009-01-20T16:47:00.000-05:00Simple answer: they don't respect the Bible, but ...Simple answer: they don't respect the Bible, but they know a lot of us do.Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12974887002402743628noreply@blogger.com