tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post8073814389710961056..comments2024-03-04T05:55:35.225-05:00Comments on Vital Remnants: A few uncomfortable truths about the Scopes Trial you won't find in "Inherit the Wind"Martin Cothranhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16452612266051351726noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-17896675563148173362008-10-30T11:07:00.000-04:002008-10-30T11:07:00.000-04:00William Jennings Bryan's summation of the Scopes t...William Jennings Bryan's summation of the Scopes trial sounds to me more concerned about social implications of evolutionary theory than about reading Genesis 1-2 as a historical account. Here it is:<BR/><BR/>Science is a magnificent force, but it is not a teacher of morals. It can perfect machinery, but it adds no moral restraints to protect society from the misuse of the machine. It can also Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-72822349504921775152008-08-25T22:46:00.000-04:002008-08-25T22:46:00.000-04:00lee: But we won't know unless you specify which c...lee: But we won't know unless you specify which conclusions you think I have drawn falsely, and what I did that was incorrect.<BR/><BR/>Your belief that those who have no sense of absolute morality just do whatever feels good. This leads you to incorrectly conclude that such individuals can have no sense of justice.<BR/><BR/>jahAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-56836001876713478392008-08-14T13:48:00.000-04:002008-08-14T13:48:00.000-04:00> jah: "Elsewhere I urge lee to consider t...> jah: "Elsewhere I urge lee to consider that others do not necessarily think as he does, which leads to false conclusions."<BR/><BR/>One false conclusion could be that my reasoning has lead to false conclusions -- but that is your conclusion, and more or less a conclusion begged from the start. But we won't know unless you specify which conclusions you think I have drawn Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12974887002402743628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-85292108864913538962008-08-13T14:47:00.000-04:002008-08-13T14:47:00.000-04:00http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Jennings_Brya...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Jennings_Bryan#Fighting_Darwinism:_1918.E2.80.931925<BR/><BR/>This section of Bryan's view of social darwinism, the influence Kellogg had on him, and so on. Bryan was clearly concerned not so much about the direct moral implications of evolution as the way it was being used by German nationalists and combined with the philosophy of Nietzsche (both Bryan and Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-78444459714193860832008-08-13T10:34:00.000-04:002008-08-13T10:34:00.000-04:00Jah: While some (or many) proponents of evolution ...Jah: <I>While some (or many) proponents of evolution were racist, the racism was not solely, or even primarily, the product of belief in evolution.</I><BR/><BR/>Where did I say it was?Martin Cothranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16452612266051351726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-76791715555190804392008-08-13T10:31:00.000-04:002008-08-13T10:31:00.000-04:00Jah: You misrepresented the link between the scien...Jah: <I>You misrepresented the link between the science of evolution and racism.</I><BR/><BR/>Where?Martin Cothranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16452612266051351726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-48261711750811204982008-08-13T02:47:00.000-04:002008-08-13T02:47:00.000-04:00MC: But I am trying to figure out where Jah thinks...MC: But I am trying to figure out where Jah thinks I misrepresented Bryan. <BR/><BR/> I never said you did. You misrepresented the link between the science of evolution and racism.<BR/><BR/><BR/>MC: Maybe Jah could clarify exactly what I said that he thinks is misrepresentation.<BR/><BR/>The statement that "Expelled" did not make too much of evolution and racism, that the two are inextricably Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-66873956123124414522008-08-12T23:03:00.000-04:002008-08-12T23:03:00.000-04:00Jah: My question is, are the misrepresentations ab...Jah: <I>My question is, are the misrepresentations above accidental or deliberate?</I><BR/><BR/>C'mon. I let you get on here and disagree with me to your heart's content. I could shut you down with click of my mouse. I let you on here because I enjoy spirited discussion and it holds me accountable for what I say. And when I disagree with you I disagree with you, I don't speculate on some evil Martin Cothranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16452612266051351726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-15809270701392549362008-08-12T22:04:00.000-04:002008-08-12T22:04:00.000-04:00Also Headquarters Nights and A Civic Biology are a...Also Headquarters Nights and A Civic Biology are available.<BR/><BR/>http://books.google.com/books?id=-ylCAAAAIAAJ&printsec=titlepage&source=gbs_summary_r&cad=0<BR/><BR/>http://books.google.com/books?id=RhIjAAAAMAAJ&printsec=titlepage&source=gbs_summary_r&cad=0<BR/><BR/>The scopes book referenced is limited preview for me<BR/>http://books.google.com/books?id=rndb5m5xNk0C&Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-53450937476823902472008-08-12T22:00:00.000-04:002008-08-12T22:00:00.000-04:00William J. Bryan's last speech at the Scopes Trial...William J. Bryan's last speech at the Scopes Trial has been widely reprinted. One online version can be found here: http://www.csudh.edu/oliver/smt310-handouts/wjb-last/wjb-last.htm<BR/><BR/>Bryan's reasons for joining the prosecution of Scopes, at least stated in public, were explicitly grounded in fundamentalist religion. For example, read these quotes from the above mentioned speech: <BR/><Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-74324993258886866272008-08-12T19:57:00.000-04:002008-08-12T19:57:00.000-04:00Martin can't get anything right. Vernon Kello...Martin can't get anything right. Vernon Kellog was not aware of the Nazi's as he wrote in the years immediately following WWI NOT WWII. Kellog was writing about German Militarism not eugenics. If I recall, the book is titled _Headquarter Nights_ and involved talks Kellog had with German officers on German nationalism and militarism. <BR/><BR/>For all the bluster over claiming Bryan Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-36908015076289605472008-08-12T19:39:00.000-04:002008-08-12T19:39:00.000-04:00Inherit the Wind does not claim to be a history of...Inherit the Wind does not claim to be a history of the Scopes Trial. ITW is a work of fiction. The printed version of the play makes this very clear in the introduction.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-59919745887907685952008-08-12T14:35:00.000-04:002008-08-12T14:35:00.000-04:00MC: Who says I can't say what the absolute standar...MC: Who says I can't say what the absolute standard is by which I can judge the Holocaust wrong?<BR/>"Thou shalt not murder." <BR/><BR/>Can you do it in a non-tautologous fashion? [I'm assuming Mr Cothran is using "murder" to more or less mean "the unauthorized taking of a human life".]<BR/><BR/>Why is the Holocaust wrong in an absolute sense but the Inquisition (or various other incidents) Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-40269958201397629852008-08-12T08:56:00.000-04:002008-08-12T08:56:00.000-04:00Jah,Who says I can't say what the absolute standar...Jah,<BR/><BR/>Who says I can't say what the absolute standard is by which I can judge the Holocaust wrong?<BR/><BR/>"Thou shalt not murder." Exoxus 20. Check it out.Martin Cothranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16452612266051351726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-87008077866674693562008-08-12T01:22:00.000-04:002008-08-12T01:22:00.000-04:00MC: Jah (who, on another thread on this blog, is r...MC: Jah (who, on another thread on this blog, is refusing to say that the Holocaust is absolutely wrong) seems to have the same problem in reading comprehension.<BR/><BR/>And refusing to say that the Holocaust is absolutely wrong is somehow a less defensible position than stating that the Holocaust is absolutely wrong but being unable to demonstrate what this absolute standard is, and whose Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-7351250693577613592008-08-11T22:54:00.000-04:002008-08-11T22:54:00.000-04:00I've got an idea: let's compare what Hart said abo...I've got an idea: let's compare what Hart said about the trial (which is completely accurate) with the portrayal of the trial in "Inherit the Wind" (which contains blatant fabrications of actual events in order to promote evolution).Martin Cothranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16452612266051351726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-82809097026519081402008-08-11T22:43:00.000-04:002008-08-11T22:43:00.000-04:00It might help lower your blood pressure and reduce...It might help lower your blood pressure and reduce the felt need to sling epithets around to read the passage again, in which case you will discover that nowhere does Hart say that the trial was over racism. What he does say is that Bryan was concerned about evolution because of its social implications. In fact, although Hart doesn't discuss this (the article I drew it from is very brief), thisMartin Cothranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16452612266051351726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-35978797266789044282008-08-11T20:27:00.000-04:002008-08-11T20:27:00.000-04:00Anon2: Excellent post. Don't be disappointed if no...Anon2: Excellent post. Don't be disappointed if no one addresses the points you made. (Mitchell?)<BR/><BR/>jahAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-90566276273230016142008-08-11T18:22:00.000-04:002008-08-11T18:22:00.000-04:00Hart is lying. The trial was not over the racism a...Hart is lying. The trial was not over the racism and eugenics promoted in the book. The trial was specifically and only over the teaching of evolution in the standard textbook, "Civic Biology" (which expended but two sentences on Darwin, and all of five or six pages on evolution, and even that treatment tepid and Lamarckian rather than Darwinian). <BR/><BR/>The "Darwinists" did not insist that Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11542449.post-78141521500229984522008-08-11T18:06:00.000-04:002008-08-11T18:06:00.000-04:00It is a little known fact that all the Klansmen in...It is a little known fact that all the Klansmen in the 1920's were closet "Darwinists" too! And this recently discovered Darwin letter to a certain German woman shows the true evil side of the dastardly "Darwinists": http://sneerreview.blogspot.com/2008/05/darwin-exposed.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com